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Cryptography - Started by: BatmanWilliams
Cryptography
Posted: 09 Jul 2024, 04:36 PM

Cryptography refers to the activity of making codes and uncoding codes, though according to your context, you might be (ethically as well as demonstrably) thinking of different things when you hear the term. Sometimes these codes are made as a plot device, such as in Futurama with Alienese, in Star Wars with Aurebesh, or Gravity Falls with some of the symbols, and sometimes they're not made for the characters or the audience of a work of media but people outside that media. Sometimes the codes are simple, sometimes they're fairly elaborate in one way or another, and sometimes they're super complex. Sometimes they're designed to be hard to crack at the cost of standing out like a sore thumb, and sometimes they're made to blend in to the environment at the cost of being easy to crack (or if you're lucky, you might make or find one that can do both). Sometimes they're made to bridge communication between groups that cannot communicate under their own normal circumstances and unite people, while other times they're made to divide people by providing a veil of secrecy. Sometimes what they convey might be ordinary language or what they convey might be something entirely different. Sometimes they can be recorded and other times they might be wholly oral. And sometimes an example of cryptography might exist because all the pieces of a "code" are the way they are because they objectively make the most sense (which would make it less "cryptography" according to some and just what native inferrence calls for), while other times it could be anything as opposed to anything else, unless consistency towards another code tempts it to be a certain way.

What is your favorite, most fascinating, and/or most notable experience with existing examples of these, do your artworks, writings, or your modus operandi have or operate by any secret codes (be it any made to be found by the viewer or more for an in-universe element), and what's your ethical take on them? Discuss cryptography.

RE: Cryptography
Posted: 09 Jul 2024, 10:02 PM

Days without thinking about Rome: 0

I don't know if I'd describe myself as a cryptology enthusiast (a friend went all in on the Gravity Falls fandom and it took me several years to finally get a handle on his puzzles), but way back in 2014 I read a book arguing that the Dieppe raid was a "pinch" mission targeting the Engima four-rotor. Acting on a whim, I learned that an Enigma simulator existed, and started peppering my dA journals with puzzles, culminating in a challenge for free art that's been hugging my neck like an albatross ever since. :^) I even tried to use it to code messages to a roleplay game master in public posts, and earned an espionage buff when it broke his brain.

P.S.: Soon after DYORPG first aired, I posted a series of messages containing hints to the game's cheat codes given to the original playtesters. To date, nobody's told me if they figured it out. If anybody wants a challenge... ;3

On a definitional note, I wouldn't qualify braille, Morse code, or aesthetic scripts like Aurebesh as cryptographic since they're not used as secure-channel communication themselves; otherwise we might say any foreign language is a cipher, which rather dilutes the meaning.

RE: Cryptography
Posted: 09 Jul 2024, 10:25 PM

if it counts, 4 a little while i used 2 write in the number equivalent of each letter in a lot of my art pieces, until i got really tired of doing it, and phrases got harder 2 come up with, although the stopping of this got me more into drawing actual backgrounds, which i would say is a net positive

i watched this video back when it came out a couple months ago and found it very interesting, while i have, literally zero knowledge on actual cryptography, i find it very cool and would like 2 understand more at some point!

RE: Cryptography
Posted: 10 Jul 2024, 04:05 AM

While it might not be cryptography per se, I am a language enthusiast and a rampant creator of constructed languages, mostly artistic languages. I encode these languages from their phonetic inventories to their complex syntaxes and interior logics. I purposely steer away from languages having the exact same definitions and meanings if I can avoid it because things are not supposed to easily translate from one language to another (not all the time, anyway). I have devised grammatical structures both from existing languages and from original ideas, such as one language that includes a specific tense-aspect combination that is used as a form of castigation. I have created languages of only a few phonetic values, languages of such phonetic richness that a human would spend a lifetime just trying to master the subtle differences in each sound, and even languages which are impossible for a human to speak. I have designed writing systems which look like they could have been an actual written language in Earth's history, and I have designed writing systems with a logic never seen before. I even have langauges which have no writing system. Context, word order, counting, conjugation, adpositions, affixation... The only reason any of my languages have anything in common with each other is if they are supposed to be part of the same language family. These languages are such an intricate part of my life and universe that I have been using them in various pieces of art for over a decade.

I also have a fondness of codes and cryptography, and I enjoy exploring the use of other constructed languages and codes. I've had a little exposure to Navajo in university, I am familiar with languages such as Klingon, Baronh, and the languages of the EXA_PICO Universe like Hymmnos. I enjoy logic puzzles, and I like to occasionally tackle coded messages.

My ethical take on them? Well, as a linguist, it is just a natural extension of language. It's a desire to change the appearance of a language for a different purpose, whether to provide security to a means of communication, to add ease to communcation, or as an alternate way to have fun with language itself.

4FFLU3NZ4:

if it counts, 4 a little while i used 2 write in the number equivalent of each letter in a lot of my art pieces, until i got really tired of doing it, and phrases got harder 2 come up with, although the stopping of this got me more into drawing actual backgrounds, which i would say is a net positive

@4FFLU3NZ4: Aww, I miss decoding those...

RE: Cryptography
Posted: 10 Jul 2024, 06:03 AM

A semi-humorous conversation the other day comes to mind.

"I have come with a concealed line of message."

"Oh goodie, gimme it and I'll crack it."

"T."

"T?"

"Yes."

"That's all?"

"That's all. What does it mean?"

To this day, nothing. All are invited to weigh in.

All context considered, despite less-than-grand flair with language in general, I am so relatively connected to this topic matter it's life's breath and blood for me. It never ceases to be a part of literacy, to calculate a meaning for every object/stimuli to be invoked when ready. Maybe I'm just crypto-macguyver, but I find it silly when you have situations said to limit communication, for example if someone is in prison and it's said the guards wish to limit the exchanges that go on. It's a unitary force, at the cost of those who are divisive if it must, it littering everything I do (and by the same vain, follow a unified theory of it). Principledly, I would tend to think it's otherwise considered misuse of it.

If you've ever heard of someone named Riddler Khu, he is an associate of mine and many of our work transfers over between each other, and the games he does work for were my peak experience invoked in the first thing you said or put forward. It's something that's carried over into the fact I have the world record for the most places having signed up for.

Thorvald:

Days without thinking about Rome: 0

I don't know if I'd describe myself as a cryptology enthusiast (a friend went all in on the Gravity Falls fandom and it took me several years to finally get a handle on his puzzles), but way back in 2014 I read a book arguing that the Dieppe raid was a "pinch" mission targeting the Engima four-rotor. Acting on a whim, I learned that an Enigma simulator existed, and started peppering my dA journals with puzzles, culminating in a challenge for free art that's been hugging my neck like an albatross ever since. :^) I even tried to use it to code messages to a roleplay game master in public posts, and earned an espionage buff when it broke his brain.

P.S.: Soon after DYORPG first aired, I posted a series of messages containing hints to the game's cheat codes given to the original playtesters. To date, nobody's told me if they figured it out. If anybody wants a challenge... ;3

On a definitional note, I wouldn't qualify braille, Morse code, or aesthetic scripts like Aurebesh as cryptographic since they're not used as secure-channel communication themselves; otherwise we might say any foreign language is a cipher, which rather dilutes the meaning.

For a lack of a better word, the meaning of it is... blurry, which I say as a communicationalist here. It's better to metaphorically describe it as the DLC pack of communication than to weigh it based on its usage. Quipu is a good demonstration of how it gets straddled. The Jawas and Tusken Raiders from Star Wars come to mind here; how they get by would have a different label if humans did things the same way. It's all linguistics.

4FFLU3NZ4:

if it counts, 4 a little while i used 2 write in the number equivalent of each letter in a lot of my art pieces, until i got really tired of doing it, and phrases got harder 2 come up with, although the stopping of this got me more into drawing actual backgrounds, which i would say is a net positive

i watched this video back when it came out a couple months ago and found it very interesting, while i have, literally zero knowledge on actual cryptography, i find it very cool and would like 2 understand more at some point!

In this context, I notice people mention this Kryptos thing a lot. While they probably had fun in its conception, as a communicationalist, it's one of those novice things. There are those who will say a good constructed "code" can be compared to a good password, in that it balances out ease of setting up, ease of unpacking, difficulty of unauthorized analysis, compatibility with the resources available, and the ability to convey, but people forget that by their logic, Kryptos would thus not be ideal... Caesar-inspired models are crude to set up and unpack and a dedicated individual can do it instantly as it tends to stick out (as opposed to, say, the CIA-associated shoelace code).

One must think like someone who is being watched who deems they have things to hide... would you rather put your trust in a code made to be unbeatable because of its complicated nature when complexity is never an issue for trained minds, or would you rather put your trust in a code made to be unbeatable because nobody else recognizes that something mundane in the room is being used as a code, which can elude trained minds because they address only what they're trained to?

fragmented_imagination:

While it might not be cryptography per se, I am a language enthusiast and a rampant creator of constructed languages, mostly artistic languages. I encode these languages from their phonetic inventories to their complex syntaxes and interior logics. I purposely steer away from languages having the exact same definitions and meanings if I can avoid it because things are not supposed to easily translate from one language to another (not all the time, anyway). I have devised grammatical structures both from existing languages and from original ideas, such as one language that includes a specific tense-aspect combination that is used as a form of castigation. I have created languages of only a few phonetic values, languages of such phonetic richness that a human would spend a lifetime just trying to master the subtle differences in each sound, and even languages which are impossible for a human to speak. I have designed writing systems which look like they could have been an actual written language in Earth's history, and I have designed writing systems with a logic never seen before. I even have langauges which have no writing system. Context, word order, counting, conjugation, adpositions, affixation... The only reason any of my languages have anything in common with each other is if they are supposed to be part of the same language family. These languages are such an intricate part of my life and universe that I have been using them in various pieces of art for over a decade.

I also have a fondness of codes and cryptography, and I enjoy exploring the use of other constructed languages and codes. I've had a little exposure to Navajo in university, I am familiar with languages such as Klingon, Baronh, and the languages of the EXA_PICO Universe like Hymmnos. I enjoy logic puzzles, and I like to occasionally tackle coded messages.

My ethical take on them? Well, as a linguist, it is just a natural extension of language. It's a desire to change the appearance of a language for a different purpose, whether to provide security to a means of communication, to add ease to communcation, or as an alternate way to have fun with language itself.

They all count if you ask me. The line is blurred more than people are used to, as I told Thorvaldo. There is no such thing as something that has never been incorporated into the context of communication. Though I'm more utilitarian when it comes to it, even though that does involve my art. Against all predictions otherwise, the endeavor is even being used to stump certain AI in their tracks. Hooray for the art world!

RE: Cryptography
Posted: 10 Jul 2024, 06:09 PM

chaseawaythedark:

A semi-humorous conversation the other day comes to mind.

"I have come with a concealed line of message."

"Oh goodie, gimme it and I'll crack it."

"T."

"T?"

"Yes."

"That's all?"

"That's all. What does it mean?"

To this day, nothing. All are invited to weigh in.

All context considered, despite less-than-grand flair with language in general, I am so relatively connected to this topic matter it's life's breath and blood for me. It never ceases to be a part of literacy, to calculate a meaning for every object/stimuli to be invoked when ready. Maybe I'm just crypto-macguyver, but I find it silly when you have situations said to limit communication, for example if someone is in prison and it's said the guards wish to limit the exchanges that go on. It's a unitary force, at the cost of those who are divisive if it must, it littering everything I do (and by the same vain, follow a unified theory of it). Principledly, I would tend to think it's otherwise considered misuse of it.

If you've ever heard of someone named Riddler Khu, he is an associate of mine and many of our work transfers over between each other, and the games he does work for were my peak experience invoked in the first thing you said or put forward. It's something that's carried over into the fact I have the world record for the most places having signed up for.

Thorvald:

Days without thinking about Rome: 0

I don't know if I'd describe myself as a cryptology enthusiast (a friend went all in on the Gravity Falls fandom and it took me several years to finally get a handle on his puzzles), but way back in 2014 I read a book arguing that the Dieppe raid was a "pinch" mission targeting the Engima four-rotor. Acting on a whim, I learned that an Enigma simulator existed, and started peppering my dA journals with puzzles, culminating in a challenge for free art that's been hugging my neck like an albatross ever since. :^) I even tried to use it to code messages to a roleplay game master in public posts, and earned an espionage buff when it broke his brain.

P.S.: Soon after DYORPG first aired, I posted a series of messages containing hints to the game's cheat codes given to the original playtesters. To date, nobody's told me if they figured it out. If anybody wants a challenge... ;3

On a definitional note, I wouldn't qualify braille, Morse code, or aesthetic scripts like Aurebesh as cryptographic since they're not used as secure-channel communication themselves; otherwise we might say any foreign language is a cipher, which rather dilutes the meaning.

For a lack of a better word, the meaning of it is... blurry, which I say as a communicationalist here. It's better to metaphorically describe it as the DLC pack of communication than to weigh it based on its usage. Quipu is a good demonstration of how it gets straddled. The Jawas and Tusken Raiders from Star Wars come to mind here; how they get by would have a different label if humans did things the same way. It's all linguistics.

4FFLU3NZ4:

if it counts, 4 a little while i used 2 write in the number equivalent of each letter in a lot of my art pieces, until i got really tired of doing it, and phrases got harder 2 come up with, although the stopping of this got me more into drawing actual backgrounds, which i would say is a net positive

i watched this video back when it came out a couple months ago and found it very interesting, while i have, literally zero knowledge on actual cryptography, i find it very cool and would like 2 understand more at some point!

In this context, I notice people mention this Kryptos thing a lot. While they probably had fun in its conception, as a communicationalist, it's one of those novice things. There are those who will say a good constructed "code" can be compared to a good password, in that it balances out ease of setting up, ease of unpacking, difficulty of unauthorized analysis, compatibility with the resources available, and the ability to convey, but people forget that by their logic, Kryptos would thus not be ideal... Caesar-inspired models are crude to set up and unpack and a dedicated individual can do it instantly as it tends to stick out (as opposed to, say, the CIA-associated shoelace code).

One must think like someone who is being watched who deems they have things to hide... would you rather put your trust in a code made to be unbeatable because of its complicated nature when complexity is never an issue for trained minds, or would you rather put your trust in a code made to be unbeatable because nobody else recognizes that something mundane in the room is being used as a code, which can elude trained minds because they address only what they're trained to?

fragmented_imagination:

While it might not be cryptography per se, I am a language enthusiast and a rampant creator of constructed languages, mostly artistic languages. I encode these languages from their phonetic inventories to their complex syntaxes and interior logics. I purposely steer away from languages having the exact same definitions and meanings if I can avoid it because things are not supposed to easily translate from one language to another (not all the time, anyway). I have devised grammatical structures both from existing languages and from original ideas, such as one language that includes a specific tense-aspect combination that is used as a form of castigation. I have created languages of only a few phonetic values, languages of such phonetic richness that a human would spend a lifetime just trying to master the subtle differences in each sound, and even languages which are impossible for a human to speak. I have designed writing systems which look like they could have been an actual written language in Earth's history, and I have designed writing systems with a logic never seen before. I even have langauges which have no writing system. Context, word order, counting, conjugation, adpositions, affixation... The only reason any of my languages have anything in common with each other is if they are supposed to be part of the same language family. These languages are such an intricate part of my life and universe that I have been using them in various pieces of art for over a decade.

I also have a fondness of codes and cryptography, and I enjoy exploring the use of other constructed languages and codes. I've had a little exposure to Navajo in university, I am familiar with languages such as Klingon, Baronh, and the languages of the EXA_PICO Universe like Hymmnos. I enjoy logic puzzles, and I like to occasionally tackle coded messages.

My ethical take on them? Well, as a linguist, it is just a natural extension of language. It's a desire to change the appearance of a language for a different purpose, whether to provide security to a means of communication, to add ease to communcation, or as an alternate way to have fun with language itself.

They all count if you ask me. The line is blurred more than people are used to, as I told Thorvaldo. There is no such thing as something that has never been incorporated into the context of communication. Though I'm more utilitarian when it comes to it, even though that does involve my art. Against all predictions otherwise, the endeavor is even being used to stump certain AI in their tracks. Hooray for the art world!

We're talking about the same Riddler Khu who is known for his pastime of leaking details about upcoming movies, games, books, park projects, government top secrets, etc. but using riddles and extreme vagueness so that he doesn't get in trouble for breaking confidentiality (since it can't be enforced against that way), right? Just thinking of that sounds awesomesauce, the fact you're one of the people behind that. Though I imagine media companies are quite peed off by you.

As for your opening there, I can see you're using a kōan there. If meaning is tied with intention, what message does someone attempt? Does it translate well into representational cues/proxies? Or is it better to acknowledge there's no such thing perfection? All good points. It's been a while since I read Nietzsche, which I'm sure the meaning doubles since you fluently speak those four languages (English, Dothraki, Toki Pona, and International Morse Code).

Also, is your signature image code for something, the one pasted below?

RE: Cryptography
Posted: 11 Jul 2024, 01:39 AM

BatmanWilliams:

chaseawaythedark:

A semi-humorous conversation the other day comes to mind.

"I have come with a concealed line of message."

"Oh goodie, gimme it and I'll crack it."

"T."

"T?"

"Yes."

"That's all?"

"That's all. What does it mean?"

To this day, nothing. All are invited to weigh in.

All context considered, despite less-than-grand flair with language in general, I am so relatively connected to this topic matter it's life's breath and blood for me. It never ceases to be a part of literacy, to calculate a meaning for every object/stimuli to be invoked when ready. Maybe I'm just crypto-macguyver, but I find it silly when you have situations said to limit communication, for example if someone is in prison and it's said the guards wish to limit the exchanges that go on. It's a unitary force, at the cost of those who are divisive if it must, it littering everything I do (and by the same vain, follow a unified theory of it). Principledly, I would tend to think it's otherwise considered misuse of it.

If you've ever heard of someone named Riddler Khu, he is an associate of mine and many of our work transfers over between each other, and the games he does work for were my peak experience invoked in the first thing you said or put forward. It's something that's carried over into the fact I have the world record for the most places having signed up for.

Thorvald:

Days without thinking about Rome: 0

I don't know if I'd describe myself as a cryptology enthusiast (a friend went all in on the Gravity Falls fandom and it took me several years to finally get a handle on his puzzles), but way back in 2014 I read a book arguing that the Dieppe raid was a "pinch" mission targeting the Engima four-rotor. Acting on a whim, I learned that an Enigma simulator existed, and started peppering my dA journals with puzzles, culminating in a challenge for free art that's been hugging my neck like an albatross ever since. :^) I even tried to use it to code messages to a roleplay game master in public posts, and earned an espionage buff when it broke his brain.

P.S.: Soon after DYORPG first aired, I posted a series of messages containing hints to the game's cheat codes given to the original playtesters. To date, nobody's told me if they figured it out. If anybody wants a challenge... ;3

On a definitional note, I wouldn't qualify braille, Morse code, or aesthetic scripts like Aurebesh as cryptographic since they're not used as secure-channel communication themselves; otherwise we might say any foreign language is a cipher, which rather dilutes the meaning.

For a lack of a better word, the meaning of it is... blurry, which I say as a communicationalist here. It's better to metaphorically describe it as the DLC pack of communication than to weigh it based on its usage. Quipu is a good demonstration of how it gets straddled. The Jawas and Tusken Raiders from Star Wars come to mind here; how they get by would have a different label if humans did things the same way. It's all linguistics.

4FFLU3NZ4:

if it counts, 4 a little while i used 2 write in the number equivalent of each letter in a lot of my art pieces, until i got really tired of doing it, and phrases got harder 2 come up with, although the stopping of this got me more into drawing actual backgrounds, which i would say is a net positive

i watched this video back when it came out a couple months ago and found it very interesting, while i have, literally zero knowledge on actual cryptography, i find it very cool and would like 2 understand more at some point!

In this context, I notice people mention this Kryptos thing a lot. While they probably had fun in its conception, as a communicationalist, it's one of those novice things. There are those who will say a good constructed "code" can be compared to a good password, in that it balances out ease of setting up, ease of unpacking, difficulty of unauthorized analysis, compatibility with the resources available, and the ability to convey, but people forget that by their logic, Kryptos would thus not be ideal... Caesar-inspired models are crude to set up and unpack and a dedicated individual can do it instantly as it tends to stick out (as opposed to, say, the CIA-associated shoelace code).

One must think like someone who is being watched who deems they have things to hide... would you rather put your trust in a code made to be unbeatable because of its complicated nature when complexity is never an issue for trained minds, or would you rather put your trust in a code made to be unbeatable because nobody else recognizes that something mundane in the room is being used as a code, which can elude trained minds because they address only what they're trained to?

fragmented_imagination:

While it might not be cryptography per se, I am a language enthusiast and a rampant creator of constructed languages, mostly artistic languages. I encode these languages from their phonetic inventories to their complex syntaxes and interior logics. I purposely steer away from languages having the exact same definitions and meanings if I can avoid it because things are not supposed to easily translate from one language to another (not all the time, anyway). I have devised grammatical structures both from existing languages and from original ideas, such as one language that includes a specific tense-aspect combination that is used as a form of castigation. I have created languages of only a few phonetic values, languages of such phonetic richness that a human would spend a lifetime just trying to master the subtle differences in each sound, and even languages which are impossible for a human to speak. I have designed writing systems which look like they could have been an actual written language in Earth's history, and I have designed writing systems with a logic never seen before. I even have langauges which have no writing system. Context, word order, counting, conjugation, adpositions, affixation... The only reason any of my languages have anything in common with each other is if they are supposed to be part of the same language family. These languages are such an intricate part of my life and universe that I have been using them in various pieces of art for over a decade.

I also have a fondness of codes and cryptography, and I enjoy exploring the use of other constructed languages and codes. I've had a little exposure to Navajo in university, I am familiar with languages such as Klingon, Baronh, and the languages of the EXA_PICO Universe like Hymmnos. I enjoy logic puzzles, and I like to occasionally tackle coded messages.

My ethical take on them? Well, as a linguist, it is just a natural extension of language. It's a desire to change the appearance of a language for a different purpose, whether to provide security to a means of communication, to add ease to communcation, or as an alternate way to have fun with language itself.

They all count if you ask me. The line is blurred more than people are used to, as I told Thorvaldo. There is no such thing as something that has never been incorporated into the context of communication. Though I'm more utilitarian when it comes to it, even though that does involve my art. Against all predictions otherwise, the endeavor is even being used to stump certain AI in their tracks. Hooray for the art world!

We're talking about the same Riddler Khu who is known for his pastime of leaking details about upcoming movies, games, books, park projects, government top secrets, etc. but using riddles and extreme vagueness so that he doesn't get in trouble for breaking confidentiality (since it can't be enforced against that way), right? Just thinking of that sounds awesomesauce, the fact you're one of the people behind that. Though I imagine media companies are quite peed off by you.

As for your opening there, I can see you're using a kōan there. If meaning is tied with intention, what message does someone attempt? Does it translate well into representational cues/proxies? Or is it better to acknowledge there's no such thing perfection? All good points. It's been a while since I read Nietzsche, which I'm sure the meaning doubles since you fluently speak those four languages (English, Dothraki, Toki Pona, and International Morse Code).

Also, is your signature image code for something, the one pasted below?

How many Riddler Khus do you know? It's such an iconic, irregular nominal title.

I'll just say there is a reason I communicate "peculiarly". Sometimes it helps to do things compatibly with your other half.

As for the signature, it isn't code for anything, it's a common combat chant for non-physical attack users in anime.

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