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So DeviantArt is committing suicide... - Started by: Thorvald
RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 05 Jun 2023, 11:00 PM
Inafox:
I don't mind joining all the sites, but I'm more likely to spend time with sites with a forum lol.



me too, at least in "Joining all sites" part here

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 05 Jun 2023, 11:59 PM
Masonicon:
Inafox:
I don't mind joining all the sites, but I'm more likely to spend time with sites with a forum lol.


me too, at least in "Joining all sites" part here



Same.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 08 Jun 2023, 02:07 AM
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edit on 08 Jun 2023, 02:08 AM.

how's the updates of Deviantart's lawsuit case: https://stablediffusionlitigation.com/case-updates.html

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 08 Jun 2023, 07:35 AM
Masonicon:
how's the updates of Deviantart's lawsuit case: [https://stablediffusionlitigation.com/case-updates.html](https://stablediffusionlitigation.com/case-updates.html)



I have high doubts in that lawsuit ever materializing. I'm not saying this because I think lowly of said lawsuits, but threatening a lawsuit being so typical a tactic of political intimidation now, combined with the fact DeviantArt is simply a host and the AI art scene is probably well versed in lobbyism, that there are bad odds of a major court seeing it as much of a threat as people who say they're affected by the advent of AI art see it as. And to be honest, there are better ways of dealing with this issue, a few of which I talk about at https://www.reddit.com/r/DeviantArt/comments/138ruo1/comment/jizkp9q/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 because the alternative to adaptation is uninvention.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 09 Jun 2023, 08:38 PM

Except the lawsuit has materialized, else Midjourney et al. wouldn't have motioned for dismissal. The question is whether the suit goes to trial, and the fact the Supreme Court effectively upheld the U.S. Copyright Office's verdict last year that AI-gen is ineligible for copyright provides the pretext to take this to the courts. Because given all the existing firefights, a legal precedent will be established sooner or later, and the plaintiffs are hoping to get the first shots in at the waterline where the AI debate at large dovetails with something that corporate law is much more familiar with: IP theft and breach of contract.

With respect to the Reddit post, those are analogous to tips on fire-proofing your house while the forest's ablaze, when what we want to do is control the fire itself.

chaseawaythedark:
the alternative to adaptation is uninvention.


I mean, 
I would uninvent the A-bomb in a heartbeat.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 09 Jun 2023, 09:52 PM

AI isn't adaptation - it's stealing to put it politely (and yes, I know a number will disagree with me and that's okay). And when people deliberately use AI to 'borrow from other artists' and do not or refuse to clearly state they use AI to 'create'? That's not adaptation.

As someone who works with copyrights and writing, it'll be interesting to see where this lawsuit goes.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 09 Jun 2023, 10:53 PM

I'll wait and see what happens after this lawsuit, knowing DA, they'll just act like they're perfect in any way, just like every filthy company out there.
The only thing I'll do is wait.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 10 Jun 2023, 01:18 PM
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edit on 10 Jun 2023, 05:28 PM.
chaseawaythedark:
EyeballEarth:
They've brought back favourite search which is the first positive thing that happened on this site for a long time, but honestly it's such a dump at this point that I doubt it's fixable without scrapping the whole thing and starting anew. dA is such a fucking mess.


People have been saying that for ages and I just don't get it. When I've used DeviantArt, I've used it to share my stuff and it works. I've used it to interact with others and it works. I've used it for staying in touch with the latest stuff and it works for that too. I can't understand what people are using it for that a few idiosyncrasies on their part cannot be tolerated (I mean compared to the norm). This is a question for this whole thread by the way.

The comment of scrapping the site and starting anew was more about the technical aspect of dA, the site is mix if various incarnations of dA at this point, riddled with half working features that were abandoned in the middle of developüment, with each change breaking something and things just not working very well, it's just a mess. It'd be better to scrap and develop a new site from the ground up and give active users the option to port their accounts to the new site in order to have a clean and efficient site.
I have seen other websites try their hand at succeeding where they think DeviantArt fails, and they only end up failing more miserably than DeviantArt. For example, Buzzly for a time was the most fetish-regulated of any of the art websites. That turned into their biggest failure before their actual biggest failure because they had a hard time defining those rules, where the line would be drawn between a red flag and an okay work. Another example is Inkblot in the context of AI. Inkblot brands itself as being harder on AI than any other website. How do they know the absolute difference between AI art and human art? That's the neat part, they don't. And they're so determined they don't want to admit they have moments of oversight as well as false flags.

I'll say being signed up for hundreds of websites opens one's eyes a little.



DeviantArt nowadays is making more or less the same mistakes like the smaller sites(I've been on a few too like eg buzzly) but they have more leeway due to historical inertia, they can tank bad decisions that kill small sites due to larger userbase, the question is for how long that can go on. I'm also getting the impression that they seem to give paying customers preferential treatment and are willing to ignore their own rules. I'm still using the hidden 'new deviations' portal since there's still good art to be discovered and report rulebreaking content, but I noticed that sometimes the accounts posting rulebreaking content have galleries full of obviously rulebreaking content(like hardcore pornography, graphic masturbation, fluids etc, or obviously copyrighted content where the uploaders didn't even bother obscuring the watermarks or site adresses) having being reviewed by staff and deemed safe, usually on core+ accounts and the like. It's either that or some mod ignoring their own rules individually.

And for the smaller sites they tend to fail simply because the people running them make alot of obvious errors that simply shouldn't be happening(like eg unclear rules/TOS, staff infighting, incompetent moderation etc). Many of those things could've been avoided with proper planning and looking at what made other art communities fail. Buzzly is a prime example with the staff still bickering about what content should be allowed on the site after 6 months of the site being online already, and the owner going rogue doing shady stuff like that weird poll to change the content rules because he wants to see more dog dicks or something like that. I was there when this shit happened, decided to go silent after posting a couple critical journals highlighting mistakes that were made, occasionally checking in to see if things have improved only to find my account banned with no explanation. The main reason that most of these sites don't take off or fail after their initial blooming is mere incomptenence from my impression.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 10 Jun 2023, 04:24 PM
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edit on 10 Jun 2023, 04:58 PM.

I wonder if those who refuse to leave DA because of "watcher numbers" would join places that offer automatic watcher tally the same they had on those sites.
I mean it's just a number. I had an account on Twitter that had like 30,000 followers and hardly any correspondence, and then 300 watchers on DA with more. And a lot of these people attached to the watcher count don't actually get correspondence, it's just a number, it's not like people see beyond the home page and actually look at the watcher pages anymore.

Not saying S7 etc should offer that, I just find people's adherence to numbers instead of quality audiences to be counter to their success.
I'm apparently well-known on DA for criticising AI images among the AI community, probably far more than any AI poster knows another AI poster.
People remember artistic vision and style and identity, not consumeristic mass-productive spam. People staying on DA are just serving against themselves, I'm only staying there to gain notice and encourage artists to go elsewhere until my membership runs out.

Low-quality watchers are going to migrate to AI because they don't actually care about the artist and treat DA as a visual spoon-feeding machine.
High-quality watchers are respectable human beings who love and respect human efforts of hard-working artists.

If people don't serve to their aspirations then I guess the film idiocracy was right, automation and the replacement of intellect in favour of consumerism will destroy the human race. AI is only a threat for intelligent people, and those who are dumb need not fear of their intelligence being replaced.

Ever since protesting, AI does seem to be curbing on the main page but definitely not the bulk of the site according to AI detectors. I've been running a sample every month on the 10th (I just remembered to do it just now lol).
I don't think think this what DA intentionally wants per se, since Premium Downloads suggested is literally still 90% AI.
https://i.imgur.com/ofOwiOH.png

If this is consistent with others on DA I've come to the conclusion that this is down to the nature of DA's algorithm which as I recall wouldn't be putting irrelevant AI posts on my home page to begin with based on historic trends. It's rather DA has been forcing it onto the home page and there's actually less AI posters than there is AI posts coming from the same person. It's clear that DA also deliberately puts AI as the top category, saying it's alphabetic is a load of bs, for "A" Anthro is a bigger category and doesn't even make the cut of the front page. And it's not about "minorities" either, let's consider that Anthro, nomadic, ethnic and various other communities are from minority backgrounds with various social issues. And now with AI they're out to target adoptables as well, a large source of income for poor prominently LGBTQ and minor ethnic artists. Many of which that would never afford the GPUs or electricity to process these custom plagiarist AI models in en-masse spam either. Right now DA is seizing the means of production of images in the art industry and their site rather than compensating artists of the producers to these means.

So it's a good and a bad sign, because the payment portals are full of AI, but not inherently the home page.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 10 Jun 2023, 05:31 PM
EyeballEarth:
chaseawaythedark:
EyeballEarth:
They've brought back favourite search which is the first positive thing that happened on this site for a long time, but honestly it's such a dump at this point that I doubt it's fixable without scrapping the whole thing and starting anew. dA is such a fucking mess.


People have been saying that for ages and I just don't get it. When I've used DeviantArt, I've used it to share my stuff and it works. I've used it to interact with others and it works. I've used it for staying in touch with the latest stuff and it works for that too. I can't understand what people are using it for that a few idiosyncrasies on their part cannot be tolerated (I mean compared to the norm). This is a question for this whole thread by the way.

I have seen other websites try their hand at succeeding where they think DeviantArt fails, and they only end up failing more miserably than DeviantArt. For example, Buzzly for a time was the most fetish-regulated of any of the art websites. That turned into their biggest failure before their actual biggest failure because they had a hard time defining those rules, where the line would be drawn between a red flag and an okay work. Another example is Inkblot in the context of AI. Inkblot brands itself as being harder on AI than any other website. How do they know the absolute difference between AI art and human art? That's the neat part, they don't. And they're so determined they don't want to admit they have moments of oversight as well as false flags.

I'll say being signed up for hundreds of websites opens one's eyes a little.


DeviantArt nowadays is making more or less the same mistakes like the smaller sites(I've been on a few too like eg buzzly) but they have more leeway due to historical inertia, they can tank bad decisions that kill small sites due to larger userbase, the question is for how long that can go on. I'm also getting the impression that they seem to give paying customers preferential treatment and are willing to ignore their own rules. I'm still using the hidden 'new deviations' portal since there's still good art to be discovered and report rulebreaking content, but I noticed that sometimes the accounts posting rulebreaking content have galleries full of obviously rulebreaking content(like hardcore pornography, graphic masturbation, fluids etc, or obviously copyrighted content where the uploaders didn't even bother obscuring the watermarks or site adresses) having being reviewed by staff and deemed safe, usually on core+ accounts and the like. It's either that or some mod ignoring their own rules individually.

And for the smaller sites they tend to fail simply because the people running them make alot of obvious errors that simply shouldn't be happening(like eg unclear rules/TOS, staff infighting, incompetent moderation etc). Many of those things could've been avoided with proper planning and looking at what made other art communities fail. Buzzly is a prime example with the staff still bickering about what content should be allowed on the site after 6 months of the site being online already, and the owner going rogue doing shady stuff like that weird poll to change the content rules because he wants to see more dog dicks or something like that. I was there when this shit happened, decided to go silent after posting a couple critical journals highlighting mistakes that were made, occasionally checking in to see if things have improved only to find my account banned with no explanation. The main reason that most of these sites don't take off or fail after their initial blooming is mere incomptenence from my impression.



I've seen and understand both sides of the "preferential paying members" debate. On the one hand, those who oppose it say it's like a kind of nepotism. On the other hand, those who oppose the opposite bring up how it might be unfair to pay for something and not be seen as anything more than a regular member who just happened to give them money. Imagine paying a hundred dollars for eternal core membership and then are treated as if your voice does not matter "more" than other people. Where am I on this? I think it's a false dichotomy and nobody can see that because it's one of those "everyone is the ahole" (Reddit terminology there) type of things. To your credit, DeviantArt didn't exactly go it safe by having a tripartite oligarchy (core membership = wealth, volunteer mods = power, senior members = fame) or appealing to the dark side of the downtrodden. Like bears to a bakery.

Despite what could be argued to be two massive flaws, sometimes, just sometimes the people are at fault. In the examples I give, the people demand action taken against X and expect the websites to do Y when you just can't map out what Y would entail. This applies to everything we both just mentioned. And then people complain about a lack of guideline clarity. Do you see where I'm going here?

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 10 Jun 2023, 06:21 PM
chaseawaythedark:
EyeballEarth:
chaseawaythedark:
EyeballEarth:
They've brought back favourite search which is the first positive thing that happened on this site for a long time, but honestly it's such a dump at this point that I doubt it's fixable without scrapping the whole thing and starting anew. dA is such a fucking mess.


People have been saying that for ages and I just don't get it. When I've used DeviantArt, I've used it to share my stuff and it works. I've used it to interact with others and it works. I've used it for staying in touch with the latest stuff and it works for that too. I can't understand what people are using it for that a few idiosyncrasies on their part cannot be tolerated (I mean compared to the norm). This is a question for this whole thread by the way.

I have seen other websites try their hand at succeeding where they think DeviantArt fails, and they only end up failing more miserably than DeviantArt. For example, Buzzly for a time was the most fetish-regulated of any of the art websites. That turned into their biggest failure before their actual biggest failure because they had a hard time defining those rules, where the line would be drawn between a red flag and an okay work. Another example is Inkblot in the context of AI. Inkblot brands itself as being harder on AI than any other website. How do they know the absolute difference between AI art and human art? That's the neat part, they don't. And they're so determined they don't want to admit they have moments of oversight as well as false flags.

I'll say being signed up for hundreds of websites opens one's eyes a little.


DeviantArt nowadays is making more or less the same mistakes like the smaller sites(I've been on a few too like eg buzzly) but they have more leeway due to historical inertia, they can tank bad decisions that kill small sites due to larger userbase, the question is for how long that can go on. I'm also getting the impression that they seem to give paying customers preferential treatment and are willing to ignore their own rules. I'm still using the hidden 'new deviations' portal since there's still good art to be discovered and report rulebreaking content, but I noticed that sometimes the accounts posting rulebreaking content have galleries full of obviously rulebreaking content(like hardcore pornography, graphic masturbation, fluids etc, or obviously copyrighted content where the uploaders didn't even bother obscuring the watermarks or site adresses) having being reviewed by staff and deemed safe, usually on core+ accounts and the like. It's either that or some mod ignoring their own rules individually.

And for the smaller sites they tend to fail simply because the people running them make alot of obvious errors that simply shouldn't be happening(like eg unclear rules/TOS, staff infighting, incompetent moderation etc). Many of those things could've been avoided with proper planning and looking at what made other art communities fail. Buzzly is a prime example with the staff still bickering about what content should be allowed on the site after 6 months of the site being online already, and the owner going rogue doing shady stuff like that weird poll to change the content rules because he wants to see more dog dicks or something like that. I was there when this shit happened, decided to go silent after posting a couple critical journals highlighting mistakes that were made, occasionally checking in to see if things have improved only to find my account banned with no explanation. The main reason that most of these sites don't take off or fail after their initial blooming is mere incomptenence from my impression.


I've seen and understand both sides of the "preferential paying members" debate. On the one hand, those who oppose it say it's like a kind of nepotism. On the other hand, those who oppose the opposite bring up how it might be unfair to pay for something and not be seen as anything more than a regular member who just happened to give them money. Imagine paying a hundred dollars for eternal core membership and then are treated as if your voice does not matter "more" than other people. Where am I on this? I think it's a false dichotomy and nobody can see that because it's one of those "everyone is the ahole" (Reddit terminology there) type of things. To your credit, DeviantArt didn't exactly go it safe by having a tripartite oligarchy (core membership = wealth, volunteer mods = power, senior members = fame) or appealing to the dark side of the downtrodden. Like bears to a bakery.

Despite what could be argued to be two massive flaws, sometimes, just sometimes the people are at fault. In the examples I give, the people demand action taken against X and expect the websites to do Y when you just can't map out what Y would entail. This applies to everything we both just mentioned. And then people complain about a lack of guideline clarity. Do you see where I'm going here?



I've edited the previous post of mine to clarify that the thing about ditching current dA and starting anew was meant in a technical sense because the site currently is a Frankenstein mess stitched together from various previous incarnations of the site combined with eclipse with all the associated problems.
The thing about preferential treatment for paying customers doesn't mean that paying customers shouldn't have special privileges, but that these privileges should be clear. AFAIK dA softened some of the upload rules for paywalled content and communicated that, but the rules for publicly visible deviations are the same across the board, regardless of who uploads them. Which in turn means that whoever mod who greenlighted these obviously rulebreaking deviations after them being reported is either rogue, or ignoring the site rules when it comes to paying accounts, either on their own, or by orders from above. It's a case of dA is simply failing to put their money where their mouth is. In any case it's a case of mismanagement that doesn't reflect well on deviantArt, and just one of many examples of mismanagement there, and similar to the behavior that leads to smaller art communities failing. A respectable website has clear rules and TOS that leave as little leeway for interpretation as possible, and the means of enforcing them.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 10 Jun 2023, 07:31 PM

Yeah DA is a Ship of Theseus. No wonder regurgitation of existent artistic achievements appeals to them.
The site reminds me of some old decaying cyborg that is patchworked with various aging technologies lol, AI just adds to it.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 04 Aug 2023, 12:35 AM

Soon, Deviantart will have 23rd birthday, and how's upcoming 23rd birthday of Deviantart?

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 04 Aug 2023, 02:42 AM
Masonicon:
Soon, Deviantart will have 23rd birthday, and how's upcoming 23rd birthday of Deviantart?



Well shoot, DeviantArt is only eight months younger than me.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 04 Aug 2023, 04:37 AM

I'm all for a war against Deviantart.

But the prospect of it's utter annihilation at this time is unwelcome.

In a time where new art sites are popping up is fine.

But consider they'll storm to places like this in volume.

Many of us remember the kinds of people on DA, we have few mods here as it is.

We have to ponder on that possibility, how do we protect what we have here from unwanted elements in the instance of a mass influx of new members. Particularly if somewhere as large as Deviantart has it's userbase wandering off and looking elsewhere.

Which has already been happening for some time.

I do believe paying attention and keen surveillance are one such tool against problematic elements. Particularly in the stead of harsh censorship.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 06 Aug 2023, 10:37 PM

anyway, how's newest video about Deviantart: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Bk0xNJoZU

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 10 Aug 2023, 04:35 PM

Are we not worrying about that DA is being moderated by freaking AI

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 10 Aug 2023, 05:16 PM

Some people literally want a AI government, as opposed to a government of the working people.
People should be credited and compensated for their work. DA is just farming people's productions for money and don't care how.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 10 Aug 2023, 05:42 PM
Inafox:
Some people literally want a AI government, as opposed to a government of the working people.
People should be credited and compensated for their work. DA is just farming people's productions for money and don't care how.



You take away the work from a man, you take something away from the man.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 10 Aug 2023, 06:19 PM
Rudi10001:
Are we not worrying about that DA is being moderated by freaking AI


I mean is it much different from their live moderation? :^)

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 10 Aug 2023, 10:09 PM

AI moderation ironically sounds somewhat better than the complete lack of it yeah lol.
More importantly why can't they add AI moderation to remove the sexual nudity that isn't put as mature.
Or like at least flag the AI images?
What is the AI even moderating here? lol

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 11 Aug 2023, 01:59 AM
This post has been edited 3 times. Last edit on 11 Aug 2023, 02:07 AM.

I bet DA's ai mods just sit there and do nothing most of the time, and DA's forums just killed my reasons to talk to people on DA in general now, I visited the forums weeks ago and no recent activity on any forums. I also question if people want others to hate each other in the forums sometimes. Whatever, Deviantart will clumsily pull the plug like the dolts they are.
(Yes I'm still holding resentment toward other not so great DA people that'll fuss at you and block you for a slightly different opinion in general.) I'll stop venting now. I only post on DA for the most part and leave the site and never reply to notes. I'm really wishing people stop sending notes, leave me be man.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 11 Aug 2023, 02:35 AM
This post has been edited 1 time. Last edit on 11 Aug 2023, 02:36 AM.
N0-11:
I bet DA's ai mods just sit there and do nothing most of the time, and DA's forums just killed my reasons to talk to people on DA in general now, I visited the forums weeks ago and no recent activity on any forums. I also question if people want others to hate each other in the forums sometimes. Whatever, Deviantart will clumsily pull the plug like the dolts they are.
(Yes I'm still holding resentment toward other not so great DA people that'll fuss at you and block you for a slightly different opinion in general.) I'll stop venting now. I only post on DA for the most part and leave the site and never reply to notes. I'm really wishing people stop sending notes, leave me be man.



As a former DA forum reg, I can say with good authority;

They absolutely fucking DESPISE each other.

Consider most of them started out as friends too.

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 11 Aug 2023, 03:13 AM
Inafox:
Some people literally want a AI government, as opposed to a government of the working people.
People should be credited and compensated for their work. DA is just farming people's productions for money and don't care how.



Unaware that those AIs need Human(if not Superhuman) level Intelligence to works well

RE: So DeviantArt is committing suicide...
Posted: 11 Aug 2023, 06:20 AM

L

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